I have a 63 bird as you all might know, but the engine came (390 2bbl) out of a 66 t-bird and the previous owner swears its the original motor. I have heard that t-birds didnt come with 2bbl carbs, so now im stomped. It seems that i must replace this intake and carb to even be near the correct specs. Is this true, no t-birds came with 2bbl carbs from 61-66?

Terence,

You are correct. The only 2bbl carb on a '63 Tbird was when it came with 2 more of 'em (3 by 2). There was no single 2bbl put on a Tbird in the period you are talking about.

A handy online reference is 'automotivemileposts'. Of course lots of books with the info also.

Does the intake part number start with a 'C6....'? If so it is a '66 but not from a Tbird (or atleast originally from one). '66 had two 390's and a 428 all only with 4bbls. If you have the book from Stephen Christ on 'Rebuilding the Big Block Ford', it would describe the application your engine came from based on the part number. This may be important in case the engine needs other changes to accept the 4bbl intake and carb.

If you don't have the book, send me the part numbers you can find off the engine and I will look them up for you.

Vince - Why does a C6 intake not fit a 66 390 bird? So there is more than one 310hp 390 used in a 1966 Tbird? Please elaborate if you can. The Steve Christ book is rife with errors, if you want real solid FE info try this forum http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182

Birdman,

Maybe wasn't clear. An intake with the cast part number starting with C6 (eg C6AE 9425)is from a '66 Ford but if its a 2 bbl intake its not originally from a Tbird 390. The 2bbl intake obviously works but it's not correct and I think the question is what is more correct for the car. Also, my mistake on the '66 390. The export model I think was a 428 that year, in other years there was an Export and US 390.

Most any source of information has some errors at time of posting or printing including the forum you point to. One has to start somewhere and keep checking from there. The advantage of forums is hopefully somebody catches the error (and contributes) in real time.

As Terence heads off for a fix. He really should have all the part numbers (block, head, intake). Lots of pieces can be put together and made to work and some are truly interchangeable.

Thanks for the reply, I dont have the book, so i will read the numbers on engine and post them back here asap! I had hoped there was a chance on the 2bbl but in reality i truly didnt think so! I knew the 63 came ONLY with a 4bbl but wasnt sure on years after! Thanks again for your help and will post asap!

Vince- Thanks for the clarification. The FE Forum is outstanding, many of the guys are old school FE guys from the 60's. The downside is they are big on Fairlanes and Galaxies and there are only a few of us Tbird guys. I really wish we could unionize the Tbird forums, I lurk around 4 different ones, the problem is there are too many and the attendance gets to spread out to be very effective.

Terence - Sorry for commandering your post, the only problem with the p/n's off the intake is that it may not match the numbers for the block assembly. The downside is to get the block numbers off an FE you need to pull the starter. Let us know if we can be of more help. 4-5-6-birdman

Terence,

Birdman makes a point. Depending on where you are in a state of assembly, disassembly or have a running car, some numbers may be hard to locate. If the engine runs well, you can probably assume the block, heads and cam are matched pretty well. So, there isn't much of a need to worry about the bits individually.

Get whatever numbers you can easily and folks can help from there.

OMG ,I feel like such an idiot. This previous owner didnt know what the heck he was talking about and its partly my fault for not checking. My engine is out of a 66 t-bird but the engine is not a 390, its a 352 and if im not mistaken, didnt some of the birds of 66 come with 352's. Now i know i have a serious change that must take place. I must purchase a 390!!!!!!!! I feel like a total putz! Its difficult when money is hard as some of you may know, but i really want my car to be close to original as possible and although it wont be a show car, i truly take serious pride in the specs and etc etc. If anyone knows of a place i can purchase a 390 or have any suggestions please please let me know!!
Terence t-bird Simien

Also what are the problems of running a 352 in a 63 bird. Any advantages or disadvantages to this? What about the tranny, does hit hurt, help, or etc, I truly need input on this one guys. I just cant believe it, the engine sounded so good before being pulled out to be rebuilt, although i dont think rebuilding this motor is the correct way to go now! HELP HELP HELP

quote:

Terence t-bird Simien

Terence - From 1961 to 1966 all the Tbirds had a 390 engine only, with the exception of 1966 which had an optional 428. The 352 is a fine engine, but in most applications only produces about 250HP in most passenger cars. There were several "special" 352's producing 300hp, but the bulk were general service engines of mediocore performance.

The Tbirds being as heavy as they are and having sports car roots were supplied with 390's in the 300 to 340hp range with the 428 at 345hp. The 352 will not hurt your transmission or anything other than your feelings.

390's are still pretty easy to find, check your local nickle ads or watch on ebay. The question is if you are going to try to build it to factory specifications and dates or simply want a 4bbl 390? Here is a link to a 1961 390 block, I can't be certain it is Tbird, the code shows Galaxie, but at that time they may have pulled blocks from other lines, it's a little out of my expertise. This seller is just down the road from me and they are reputable. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4531284463&category=34202

I have several 390's that I may sell but nothing that old. You will most likely have to rebuild whatever you do find and it won't be cheap as the FE is an expensive engine to build.
You might be better off adding a few performance parts ie. aluminum intake, good 4bbl carb., camshaft and performance ignition and you can easliy get the 300HP out of the 352 if it's a good runner to begin with. No one would ever be the wiser as you cant tell unless you pull the starter and even then a 352 can be made to be a 390. Enjoy the car and don't sweat it too much. Good Luck!!

Terence - I didn't pay attention to the fact that your engine must be at a mcahine shop? Go to this forum and join and post a few questions about making a 352 into a 390, that might be your best bet. Perhaps the bare block I showed you would get you on the way, the heads are easy to find. Check out the forum, great bunch of Ford guys and they know the 352-390 better than anyone in this country. They can also provide you with the year correct parts and part numbers. I have been in this game for 30+ years and they are tops. http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182

Thanks so much for all the help, i didnt know i can boost the 352 or basically get it to a 390, im kinda a novice when it comes to the workings of internal engines, but am pretty good with all the basic stuff regarding fine tuning etc etc. Im gonna switch the intakes first off, and try to boost the hp with the suggestions here. In time when money permits, i will get my 390, but for now my 352 will have to work. Talking with the wife and we all know how wifey can be when it comes to spending money on a project not deemed a necessity, so i must make this work. I love the forums they are so helpful and i will take the advice given here an use it towards what best fits are situation. You guys are so great!!!!!
Terence Simien

Have you checked with www.fordmotorsn'engines for a 390?

Terence,

Why do you think the engine is a 352? If you found a casting mark at the front of the block that says '352' that was present on all 352, 390 and 428 blocks. If you found other information that confirms its a 352 then ignore the above.

A 352 could not possibly be out of a '66 TBird any more than the 2bbl 390 could be. The guy who sold you the car is not telling you the whole story. Again, it is possible the engine came out of a TBird but, if so, it is not the original engine.

Unless you get the block from birdman, a friend or someone else you know, you should assume it will have to be rebuilt (and it may need rebuilding even if its from a friend but hopefully they disclose that). There are a bunch of TBird and old Ford resale shops in California. Surely, someone close by should have a '63 390 or you may be able to pick up a parts car cheap. Good luck.

Vince hold on your confusing me, i read on the block 352, does that not confirm its a 352 or are you telling me all the 352,390,428 were stamped with a 352 designate number. Slow me down a little if im way off, but i thought blocks would be stamped with the actual engine size, am i wrong? 4-5-6- BIRDMAN where r u when i need you. :-)
Again, needing help and will recheck this engine again to make sure there are no other markings, as a matter of fact i will input here all the actual numbers on the blocks etc etc.

Vince is absolutely correct. Most all of the FE series 352,360,390,410,428 and a few others not mentioned have 352 stamped on the front of the block, this DOES NOT INDICATE the cubic inches. It is difficult with the few short paragraphs we type to assimilate a posters knowledge base. From the way you were talking I assumed the engine was at the machine shop and they informed you of the discrepency of your engine size. I mentioned this once and you did not confirm or deny wether the engine was opened up or at a machine shop. Sorry bout that!

The reason the FE engines are marked 352 is that it was one of the first engines of the family and the casting were all set that way. The blocks (except some or a few HP ie. 428CJ, SCJ, possibly 410's) all used the same casting and then the bores were worked to accept the various piston sizes. The rods and cranks were also different for various configurations and most are interchangeable. That is why I suggested you could build a 390 out of a 352 fairly easily.


You also indicated you have a 2 barrel carb and intake, this would rule out a Tbird 390 or 352 but could be another Ford or Mercury 390 or 352, from say a truck or other passenger car, they made many with 2 barrels. The intake also may have been put on your car as someone could have made a swap and taken the 4 barrel carb and intake off of the original 390. It may be that the original engine is still in the car and only the carb and intake were robbed.

If you can provide me the following numbers there is a reasonable chance we can identify your engine. You will need to remove the starter and get the casting number off the block if you don't see it anywhere else on the block. Also get the casting number off the intake and the cylinder heads. On the intake it should very visible and all the numbers should read something like C6AE-xxxx, there will also be a date code that is very useful and will tell when the part was cast. It is smaller and harder to read and would look something like 5C27, all the cast engine parts have both the longer text previous above and the shorter text shown latter above. The cylinder heads should have the numbers between I believe the 2nd and 3rd spark plug holes. Some heads have the numbers located under the valve covers. The block numbers as I mentioned are usually on the passenger side below the exhaust manifolds and are often times under the starter. That will be the longer text ie. C6AE-xxxx. You also should try to find the date code on the block ie. 5C27. It is a little harder to find, the block has bosses on it, or small ledge extensions in the casting, there are usually 4 on the FE, right,left, front and back. The date is usually cast on top of this boss and is usually on one of the passenger side bosses. The exhaust manifolds will also have both sets of numbers as well as the water pump. You may also look for a small metal tag on the carburetor with a casting number. From 1964 to 1973 the FE's also had a small metal tag with the engine casting number on it. It is usually located at the front of the engine on or around the coil bracket, these usually get removed and lost over the years although the engine tag on my 64 Bird is still there, but the engine was replaced by a shop years ago and the tag doesn't match the casting numbers on the block or heads anymore.

If you can locate and put together a short list with all the parts, followed by the casting number and date code there is a decent chance I can identify what you have. Sorry about the confusion but hang in there and we'll see if we can get this done for you. Good Luck!!

4-5-6 birdman, YOU ARE THE MAN! I will try to find every number on all the above and list him tomorrow. Sorry about the confusion on rebuilding/shop part, might have went right over my head! I have gutted the car for the most part and have the engine on an engine stand in my garage, all other parts and pieces are boxed up and cataloged + tagged! I knew this would be a long process, so i wanted to be prepared. Wow, i do feel somewhat better knowing there is a chance the engine may be a 390, and possibly a t-bird 390 only if someone swapped out intakes or something!!! I will promptly get that info and post it here on 4-7-05, jeez birdman, YOU AND EVERYONE are so kind and helpful! INFO COMING SOON!
THANKS AGAIN
P.S.- Do you have any pics of your t-birds?

Terence,

Glad you could get some good (potentially) news regarding the 352 v 390 thing.

While you are patiently waiting, one more thing to consider is what you want the end state to be. It sounded as if you a close to rebuilding the engine. If you want to bring your '63 back to something close to original, research a '63 390. '66 or '63 the performance will be the same. The rebuild will cost the same regardless of which year 390 engine you rebuild. If you want your car all '63 then the only difference is the cost of '63 donor engine. If you are lucky enough to find a '63 at a rebuilder, they may take the '66 as the core and not care.

If you are restoring to a daily driver it really makes little difference. If you are trying to get closer to original, look into the costs.

Good luck and have fun.

4-5-6 BIRDMAN AND VANCE, Ok here goes, i got all the numbers i could locate on the engine and intake manifold. Although after checking the engine again, i truly believe it is a 352, but maybe these numbers ive found will tell us something different. HERE GOES
Front of engine - 352 82
Back of engine - 352 28 or 82
HEADS - C8AE-H 42
Side of block - 41 DIF
INTAKE MANIFOLD - C8AE-9425B
Hope this helps me!
thanks guys

Oh by the way, i wasnt sure if i should have been looking for numbers such as C8AE etc etc on the block/engine, so i did my best to find every number i could. Is there anything on the engine that would say 390? Im doing my best not to sound to dumb when it comes to this, but i ask these questions, because of your knowledge of these t-birds!
THANKS AGAIN